Shahnameh, On the Creation of the World, Part 5

Leyla: salām omid jān. 

Omid: salām leyla jān. 

Leyla: Thank you for joining me for this last episode on the preface, part three On the Creation of the World. I'm excited to do this final portion. So I've noticed that this, in your title, you had part three of the preface. Can you tell us a little bit about what came before this, so we have a little context? 

Omid: The preface, which is the very, very beginning of the book, begins with “bé nāmé khodāvandé jān ō kherad.” ‘In the name of the God or the ruler’ of “jān,” of ‘spirit,’ of ‘life,’ and “kherad,” which we talked about last time, that ‘ancient wisdom.’ 

Leyla: That divine wisdom. 

Omid: Exactly. And so, in that first section, he talks about this entity, this divine entity, and praises it and gives it all kinds of titles, descriptions of this source of everything. The second section of the preface is: “goftār andar setāyeshé kherad.” It's about the praise of “kherad” itself. And it's in that section that he gives us a better idea of what he means by “kherad.” This ancient divine wisdom that seems to predate everything, and it is the source of all wisdom that we have access to. And so from there, he then gets to “goftār andar āfarinesh.” So the section that we are reading, which has to do with the process of creation itself. 

Leyla: Since you have it out, can you hold up for those watching this on video, can you hold up your Shahnameh? 

Omid: Yes. This is the one copy of the Shahnameh that I have. This is the full thickness of it. 

Leyla: Oh, incredible. 

Omid: This is based on noskheyé muzeyé britāniyā. It is based on the copy that exists in the British Museum. 

Leyla: The British. 

Omid: Indeed. There is one in Russia as well. There's several extant old copies of the Shahnameh, upon which then all the other ones that have been printed are based. So different ones will acknowledge which of the sources they used, but a really, really good one will tell you that they've perused all those different copies, ancient copies, and they've tried to make sure that there is this continuation and there is this consistency, and to understand some things that were redundant or some things that may have been added later, because there are verses sometimes that people just stuck in there. And so it's nice to just know which version it is that you’re reading. Here's just a typical page, if you want to see. There's lots and lots of many, many verses, even on a single spread. It is a pretty huge epic, ultimately. 

Leyla: So is this how you've read it? Have you read it in that book?

Omid: I've read it in this book, yes. But I also have a version that is divided into five volumes, and that's a little bit easier to handle and carry around. If you want to go and get a copy, just see what's available. And sometimes it's just easier to get the ones that are in several volumes. That way, you don’t have to lug this around. 

Leyla: And have you read it from the very beginning to the very end? 

Omid: I have, I have, yes. 

Leyla: Wow, and how did you do that? Did you read it over a course of time or how...? 

Omid: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It took years. And, when I teach Shahnameh, it takes us about seven years to get to half way. We meet weekly, and we read, and we talk about it. 

Leyla: Wow. And you have people that have been with you for seven years? 

Omid: Oh, yeah. For sure, for sure, for sure. 

Leyla: Wow, what a journey! 

Omid: Yeah, it's incredible, and because we don't just read it, obviously, we get into the symbology of it, which I think is very, very important. Ferdowsi himself, there's a verse in the preface where he says, he tells us that this is also a coded text that can be decoded, a lot more can be gotten out of it when you unravel the code and the mystery. So this is what we do. We start to find the keys to that code, and then we read Shahnameh according to that, and everything starts to really take on a lot more meaning. And it applies both to human psychology and sociology and archetypes, and there's lots and lots to be drawn from it, beyond just the beautiful and exciting stories of love and battles and all of that. 

Leyla: Wow. So you're currently in a seven year cohort? 

Omid: No, we are now, we've started fresh a couple of years ago. So now we're in the third year of a new group. 

Leyla: Yeah. Okay. So, where do people, can people join you at this point? Where do people find out about this? 

Omid: It's always best to start Shahnameh from the start, I always say. 

Leyla: So wait five years? Or so. 

Omid: We start a new class every four, five years or so. every four, five years or so. So, in this case, yeah, but they can still join if they really want to. And I always do my best to bring people up to date a little bit if they join late. And right now, we're in the midst of exploits of Rostam, one of the most famous sections of the Shahnameh. It’s actually a really exciting part to come in with. So if they contact me, we'll work it out. Either they’ll wait or they’ll join. Things are always possible. 

Leyla: Okay, good, good. And of course, we have links to how to contact Omid on our website and on the show notes for this episode. And, if you feel called to start this seven-year journey, maybe there's a way. Well, I feel very lucky that we get to read the beginning of it with you since you have a good experience with this. 

Omid: Yeah. No, it's always truly my pleasure. And honestly, I feel it’s such a blessing and a privilege to be able to read Shahnameh, and to just try even to understand everything that it has to say. This little section is really the tip of the tip of the iceberg, and there's so much more to it. But it's a very good way to get our feet wet. 

Leyla: Yeah. Let's dive in. 

Omid: Excellent. Okay. I think last time we ended with the appearance of the animals and Ferdowsi’s idea that animals are here to mostly seek just peace, and food, and sleep. And they don't really have much more capability than that. And so they're not expected to really understand good and bad because they don't have that ability. So they're not expected to serve the divine, the highest good. So, from there now we go to verse 24 where he says: chō dānā tavānā bod ō dādgar az ee-rā nakard eech penhān honar “dānā,” again, we had that earlier, is one of the ways that Ferdowsi refers to that very, very wise source of existence, the Creator. And he says: “chō dānā,” ‘because’ or ‘since this wise being,’ “tavānā bod,” ‘was very, very powerful,’ had lots of lots of power and potential, ‘and,’ “va,” “dādgar,” it was ‘just.’ “dādgar” is somebody who practices justice. So it follows that for Ferdowsi, the one that is the wisest is also the most just. And so because this entity is wise and just, “az ee-rā nakard eech penhān honar” ‘For that reason,’ “nakard eech,” “eech” is just a poetic way of saying “heech.” “nakard eech,” ‘did not at all.’ “penhān,” ‘did not at all hide or hold back any of its’ “honar.” “honar” is a really important and beautiful word in Shahnameh. How do we use it normally in conversation, Leyla? 

Leyla: It means your art, your, what do you call it? Gift. Talent. Talent! That's the word I'm going for, yes. 

Omid: Your talent, your gift. Yeah, exactly. So in a way, it's also relevant here in the sense that all the capabilities, all the talents, all the powers that this wise and just being had, none of them were held back. In other words, one by one, it started to kind of create or manifest each of these powers in different ways. Does that makes sense? So part of Creation for Ferdowsi is the idea that this source of everything that is wise and just, one by one, starts to reveal all the capabilities that it has in creating, and manifesting, and bringing to existence different kinds of life, different kinds of creatures, different kinds of creations. Does that make sense? 

Leyla: Yes.

Omid: Excellent. So now he gets to where all of this is leading, which is verse 25. Ferdowsi says: “chō z'een bogzaree mardom āmad padeed shod een band-hārā sarāsar keleed” He says, now that we've passed these stages, “gozashtan,” ‘bogzaree’ is when you pass. “chō z'een bogzaree,” ‘now that you’ve passed this,’ “mardom āmad padeed.” “mardom” means ‘people.’ We use that very much in modern Farsi. “mardom āmad padeed,” ‘people appeared.’ Or in a way, ‘humankind showed up.’ And then the second half is, I think, what's such an interesting verse to contemplate. “shod een band-hārā sarāsar keleed” The human being, or human beings, “shod,” ‘became,’ “keleed,” became like a key. To what? “een band-hā” ‘These binds,’ ‘these locks,’ in a way. “band,” literally, is like the same word as ‘bind.’ And so human beings are described as that which opens up, that undoes the binds, the limitations. So we have to think about, I think Ferdowsi wants us to think about, what are these binds? Should we know from what we read earlier so far, what these binds are that human beings are keys to? Are there clues as to what he means about these binds and how, in what way, we are the almost secret, mysterious key that can open all of these binds, that can undo the bonds. What do you think, Leyla? 

Leyla: I don't know, is it just the order of, like, the elements and the plants and the everything, the order of things? I'm not sure. 

Omid: Yeah, I think that's an interesting answer. I think it's really one of those questions that almost bears, finding no final answer to. But just to think about the idea that we are here as keys, we are here to open things. And the idea of opening binds is also a notion of, carries that notion of freedom. So we're here to be bringers of a freedom in a way. Maybe it has something to do with it. 

Leyla: I mean, it makes zero sense to me because it seems like all the things that he's mentioned would be much better off without human beings knowing what we know now. It seems like they would run on their own because they have intuition and they have like, the trees don't need us to grow and to do what they need to do, but sure, sure Ferdowsi. 

Omid: Very true, very true. But what has he told us? What has he told us? You're absolutely right about that. But what has he told us? Just earlier he said that the creatures' lower forms, like the animals and the plants, as Ferdowsi sees them, do not have access to that “kherad.” 

Leyla: “kherad,” okay. I guess that's necessary for some reason.

Omid: And I think, one can be cynical about it, but one can also start to think about the idea that is there a divine, ancient wisdom that is available for us human beings to tap into? And if so, what would happen? What would happen if we tapped more and more into that? Something that is locked for the other forms of life. We can unlock that, we can unlock the doors to “kherad.” And if we do that, how would we behave? Would we behave differently if we have more access to something that is an ancient wisdom, an ancient knowingness? In a way, the entirety of Shahnameh can be understood as Ferdowsi’s attempt to bring us closer to awareness of these ancient wisdoms that these stories carry with them, really beautiful, symbolic messages that are revelations of those ancient wisdoms. Wisdoms that have to do with what is truly just? What is truly divine, what is truly good? What does peace actually mean? What is humanity really here to do? What are the different aspects of us that can raise us into a higher state of consciousness and evolution? For me, all of these things are, in fact, things that are contained in the stories of Shahnameh, and I think here, Ferdowsi can be seen as setting that up and saying, look, us humans are a key to that wisdom. Whatever other creatures don't have access to, we have access to that. And you don't have to live just with our animal instincts. You don't have to live with those kind of lower drives that we sometimes are driven by, that cause us to do violence to each other, to do injustice to each other, to do all kinds of really inhuman things to each other. When we tap into that ancient wisdom, it allows us to live in alignment with what is the highest good for all. And that's a beautiful thing. wouldn’t you say, Leyla?

Leyla: It is, yes. And it is not meant to denigrate, necessarily, other forms of life. It is not meant to say that, oh we human beings are somehow better and we should live in denigration of those. It’s simply to say that we have this capability. Maybe to remind us that we can use it. We can access it. Well, yeah, it makes me excited to read more of these stories, because maybe the word cynical is right. Reading this, I feel at a cynical moment of... Sure. And understandably so, understandably so. What could we possibly... But when we look at the potential, both for doing things that are good and things that are not so good, we can also start to see, oh, right, there's so much good that we are capable of. As much as we can see all the not so good things that we have done, and do to each other, we can also see, even historically, that there's a lot of good that human beings have done. And then we can say, all right, we are capable of even more of that. There's a lot of that that can be accessed. But again, for Ferdowsi, that requires tapping into that ancient wisdom. Does that make sense? “kherad” is really the key to all of it. Good. Yeah. And so he goes on from there, and he says: “saresh rāst bar shod chō sarvé boland bé goftāré khoob ō kherad kārband” He says the human being held his or head high, like the tall cypress tree, sarvé boland. This is that image that shows up a lot in Shahnameh, in Hafez, in Ferdowsi, the sarv, the cypress tree, is very much this national symbol of something that stands up tall, and reaches up for the highest plains, right? Even though its roots are in the Earth. It stands and reaches up, pointedly towards what the mystics would call ‘divine.’ So in a way, comparing something to sarv, it's not just a physical compliment, if you're standing up straight, then they have good posture, but also that you are reaching loftily towards something higher, even as you are firmly planted to the Earth. 

Leyla: Yeah. Reading the translation of the Shahnameh, it's the highest compliment that you can give to someone. And when you know that someone is kingly, like, Zal is just like a “sarv,” Rudabeh, who he sees as like “sarv.” 

Omid: Yeah. It's used a lot, and as you say, in context where somebody is being paid the highest compliment. Absolutely. Yeah. And so now the human beings are being paid this highest compliment. And also, it says: “bé goftāré khoob ō kherad kārband.” “kārband” means ‘engaging in an action or doing, “yé kāree,” that is based on “goftāré khoob,” which is good speech, like virtuous speech, which is one of the three tenets of Zoroastrianism also. And then again, “kherad,” that ancient wisdom, that our actions can be potentially based on and founded upon this ancient wisdom and our expressions, not just our verbal speech, but anything that comes out of us can be based on that, can be founded on that, we have this capability. “pazeerandéyé hoosh ō rāy ō kherad mar-oo-rā dad ō dām farmān barad” “pazeerandé” means something that is able to receive. “pazeeroftan” is ‘to accept’ or ‘to receive.’ So the human being is a “pazeerandé,” is an acceptor, is able to receive “hoosh,” which is, ‘smarts’ or ‘intellect.’ “rāy,” which is ‘proper judgment,’ ‘proper reasoning.’ And also “kherad,” again, that ‘wisdom.’ So we have the capability to receive all of these powers, and “mar-oo-rā,” “mar” is just the extra word that keeps the meter properly. “mar-oo-rā dad ō dām farmān barad” “dad ō dām” are creatures that are both wild and tame. “dām” is like tame creatures, and “dad” is wild creatures. It shows up a lot in Shahnameh, “dad ō dām,” it's a pairing that encompasses the two classes of creatures. And he says: “dad ō dām oo-rā farmān barad,” ‘is at the command of the human being.’ In a way, he’s giving human beings dominion over the animals who have dominion over the plants. So there's this hierarchy in Ferdowsi, which again, is not meant to bring down or insult the other forms of life. It's just to say that we are capable of things that put us in greater power over this Earth, not necessarily the other kinds of life. Does that make sense so far? 

Leyla: Yes. Okay. I think that's a good stopping point for this lesson. We said thrilling conclusion last time, but we lied. Because we want to give the last few lines a good, proper, we're at the exciting point of this, where we have the human being. We're going to see where this is all leading, what instructions it's going to provide for the human being, Omid promised us in the beginning. So we want to leave some time to put it all together, perhaps be the key to putting it all together, as we said, the human beings are earlier. We want to work through my cynicism and ask why I have been led to this point where I am right now? Do a little therapy session. No, we won't bore you with that. But we will be back next time with the final lines. So thank you, omid jān, and see you on the next part.