Shahnameh, On the Creation of the World, Part 3

Leyla: salām bé hamegee, salām Omid jān. 

Omid: salām leylā jān. 

Leyla: Hello, and thank you for joining us for this third part of our On the Creation of the World from the Shahnameh, from the preface of the Shahnameh, actually. We've covered about ten lines so far, and we're going to just dive in to part three and continue with how the world was created. If you can give us a little synopsis of what we covered in the first two parts. 

Omid: Absolutely! With a quick recap, Ferdowsi tells us, if we remember, that it's important for us to know where the first elements came from, the first four elements. And he says this came from an entity called the yazdān, which is a word that means that which is worthy of worship, the Creator. The Creator created things from no thing. So it came out of no-thingness into thingness, and these four elements became the foundation of everything else. And so there was fire, water, earth, and air. And in order, they came, starting with fire and eventually air and from that, the earth came and from there, there was this coldness which became moisture. And all of these forces started to combine together in different combinations and various combinations to create the entirety of the sky and the heavens and so on. And we talked about how there was seven that came to rule over 12, and we talked about the 12 houses of the Zodiac, which were understood to be how you divided the sky into these 12 sections, the constellations, and then there are seven planets and stars that are seen as these little spheres, that one surrounding the other, all of which surrounding the earth at the center. And different planets are ruling over each one of these spheres, like the Moon and the Sun and Venus and Mercury and so on. He is taking us step by step through this process of the creation of everything, which, from the point of view of somebody who lived at that time and understood what we call the geocentric model, where the Earth was at the center of everything, and the rest of the world surrounded our planet. And so from there, we can continue and see what else shows up.

Leyla: And I don't know if we talked about this last time, but speaking of the Zodiac, that comes up so often in the Shahnameh. Really, the planets and the stars do rule over the people. A lot of times they will confer to the priest or the astrologers to tell them what will happen in the future, who's going to be a good ruler, who's not going to be a good ruler, who the love interest should be, who they should not be. It's interesting, this coming up right in the preface, telling us how important those are.  

Omid: Yes! There's these characters called moobad who are, as I say, a combination of a high priest and astrologer. And they look into the stars, and they see how things are aligned and doing so, they give a sense of how the future would go. And, it's still also very important to know that, characters of the Shahnameh do have free will. So it's not just that they're only bound to these notions of fate and destiny. There's also action that can be taken, and change that can be made in the course of how things are going. So both of those elements are very much present. But yes, astrology is a very, very big part of how things precede the stories of Shahnameh. 

Leyla: Wonderful. We're going to start on that 11th line and then let's see how far we go. 

Omid: So we go back, and we start with line 11, where we left off, where Ferdowsi says: daré bakhshesh ō dādan āmad padeed bebakhsheed dānā chonān chon sazeed. He says: ‘the doors of givingness and generosity appear and presumably opened up.’ In other words, things started to flow. From where? From “dānā.” “dānā” is ‘that which is wise’, ‘this entity that is the wise one’, this universe, which goes back to that Creator, that source of everything. And that “dānā” is gifting, is generously giving “bakhsheedan” or “bakhshānéyesh” is a sense of just ‘giving freely.’ So this is what happens. “bebakhsheed dānā.” ‘The wise one gave for granted.’ chonān chon sazeed “sazeed” means ‘as was just’, ‘as was proper’, ‘as was appropriate’. ‘That which is wise gives through these doors of generosity that which is proper.’ In other words, everything starts going into its proper place. And that, in Shahnameh, is the most beautiful definitions of justice, everything in its rightful place. Which is very different than what we can with being sometimes think about just justice, decisions that courts give out, that half of us agree with and half of us don't. But, for Ferdowsi and for the mystics, the idea of justice is something much bigger than that. And it's everything in the universe in its proper place. And that comes from this source, from this Creator of everything. And if we aligned with that, then we can also be sources of justice in a way. Which is, I think, really, really a beautiful idea to think about. Cool. So again, what happens? This is verse 12. falak-hā yek andar degar basté shod bejonbeed chon kār payvasté shod “falak” is like ‘the sky’ or ‘the spheres of the layers of the sky.’ So he says ‘the spheres, one after the other were bound together, were interwoven’. So it's not just each layer of the sky or the world is independent. Everything is really interconnected and interwoven in this creation process, which is a beautiful idea to think about, the original interconnectedness of everything that appears. bejonbeed chon kār payvasté shod. When this work became “payvasté,” when these connections were now put in place with this word, things began to move, “bejonbeed.” They knew that, obviously, that these planets and stars move, generally speaking. Once they became created and interconnected, their neutral movements started to happen. Then in verse 13, he says: chō daryā vō chon kooh ō chon dasht ō rāgh zameen shod bé kerdāré roshan cherāgh. As “daryā”, ‘the seas’ or ‘the oceans appeared,’ as “kooh,” ‘mountains appeared,’ as “dasht,” which means ‘the plains appeared,’ and “rāgh.” “rāgh” is an archaic word that means ‘meadows’ or ‘meadow.’ So all of these things started to appear. The seas, the mountains, the plains, and the meadows. And so the earth, by virtue of all these things, zameen shod bé kerdāré roshan cherāgh “cheragh,” like ‘a lamp,’ and “roshan” meaning ‘shining’ or ‘radiant’. So the earth became shining and radiant like a lamp by virtue of all of these natural elements appearing. It wasn’t just this boring place anymore. It was filled with a variety of natural landscapes. 

Leyla: What good vocab words for us there, too. 

Omid: Absolutely. Then he says: bebāleed kooh, āb-hā bardameed saré rostanee sooyé bālā kesheed “bebāleed” “bāleedan” is ‘to rise up proudly.’ “bebāleed kooh,” ‘the mountains rose up proudly.’ “āb-hā bardameed” “bardameedan” is to ‘swell up.’ And so the waters start to swell. In other words, the waves go up at them. And as this happens, saré rostanee sooyé bālā kesheed “rostan,” or “rooyeedan” as we call it more formally, is the idea of ‘growth.’ So “rostanee” is ‘that which grows’. But in this case, more specifically, Ferdowsi is referring to ‘the plants,’ ‘the greenery.’ So “saré rostanee”, ‘the heads of these greeneries that grow’, “sooyé bālā kesheed,” ‘rose towards the upward direction’ and in an upward direction. In other words, it's a very poetic way of saying ‘plants began to grow.’ ‘Greenery began to grow.’ So again, we see that natural elements are starting to appear more and more and more. And then he says: zameen-rā bolandee nabod jāyegāh yekee markazee teeré bood ō seeyāh He says, ‘the Earth did not have a lofty position.’ It was at the center of all of this. It wasn’t up above all these other things, planets and stars. It was at the center. We mentioned last time what's called the geocentric model, which is how they understood the universe to be organized. And so the Earth was “yé markaz,” there was a center. “teeré bood ō seeyāh,” ‘it was still relatively dark, black.’ So what does that mean? He tells us in the next line. He says: setāré bar oo bar shegeftee nomood bé khāk andaroon roshanāyee fozood. Now, ‘the stars appear above the Earth,’ and they “shegeftee,” means ‘wonders,’ and “nomoodan” is ‘to show.’ So “setāré” is ‘the stars.’ ‘They showed their wondrousness,’ “bar oo bar,” ‘above that,’ ‘that’ being ‘the Earth.’ So ‘above the Earth, the stars began to display their wonders.’ bé khāk andaroon roshanāyee fozood ‘Onto the Earth, onto the soil, they brought and increased brightness.’ They added “roshanāyee”, ‘light’ and ‘brightness.’ So really, it's just this amazing, if you can visualize it, it's almost like this beautiful flow of one by one by one, all of these things that we take for granted, were not there before, and they're starting to appear and doing their thing, adding something beautiful and meaningful to creation, to existence. 

Leyla: Yeah. I was actually thinking of it as this animation of these things happening in this darkness and this lightness and all these elements appearing and ebbing and flowing. It is really nice, nice imagery. 

Omid: Isn't it? And it's incredibly visual, and as you say, has this flow to it, and that's part of Ferdowsi’s mastery, that he can take us and really show us vividly this process that is really the origin or existence, at least in his point of view. This is his version of things. 

Leyla: I love it. I think let's stop there today. But I do want to go back to the first line, because that's the more abstract line. All these other ones are actually wonderful. In the PDF guide, we will have all these words, because there's a lot of vocabulary that you can add to your list by listening to these simple words, like “daryā,” “kooh,” “dasht,” all these. “rāgh,” not so much, but these are all really good vocabulary words. But this first one is more, I think, abstract. So if we can go back to that. So dar bakhshesh ō dādan āmad padeed 

Omid: daré bakhshesh ō dādan āmad padeed

Leyla: “darè,” oh, “daré bakhshesh.” Okay, I misread that. 

Omid: Yeah. That's a great line to go back to. “dar,” ‘the door’, right? Or ‘the gate,’ ‘the door,’ literally. We say “dar.” “daré bakhshesh,” “bakhshesh” is again ‘givingness’ and ‘generosity.’ 

Leyla: That's a really interesting, you know, it's one of those things in a lot of times I find in Persian, you don't think of the really meaning of the word, and then you think how the words go together. But even in English, it's the exact, it is the same exact formation. For-give-ness, like giving. So “bebakhsheed” is ‘to ask for forgiveness.’ To give, “bebakhsheed” is ‘to forgive.’ Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it’s how you say ‘I'm sorry,’ but you say ‘forgive me.’ for give me.

Omid: How beautiful. 

Leyla: And that word is so beautiful. I've never thought of for-giving. 

Omid: Yeah, I love that connection! That's fantastic, yeah. And for Ferdowsi, that givingness begins with the source of existence. The what we sometimes call the Creator, or whatever that force is. It's the first one to practice and to bring in this idea of givingness And it's a value that we can almost call like a divine value. This idea of just giving generously without any expectation. 

Leyla: So it's literally saying this door appeared, this door of forgiveness appeared. So even that is a visual element. 

Omid: Yeah. In this case, I think it's more givingness than forgiveness, but certainly, there is a door, it isn’t opening, and in a way, it's like you can imagine, almost like a gateway between that unseen world of the Creator, and this world where we experience everything. There is this opening and through that gateway, there is givingness, there is this process of some entity bringing these things into existence for us, on our behalf in a way, without expecting anything back. This unconditionally giving. I think that's a really incredible way to think about the origin of the universe and of everything as it continues to appear in this world, that things appear, and show up, and are created without any expectation of anything, you know, anyone giving back. But of course, it's beautiful for us to acknowledge that and say, oh, there's so many blessings that we have, and how can we be grateful for that, even if we are not expectant to. Because it's not something that is a burden, it's not our responsibility to be grateful, but it is actually a pleasure. It really is a beautiful feeling to acknowledge and to be grateful for everything that we receive in life. 

Leyla: And the other thing that I wanted to point out is, you know, these stories of creation always have the ‘let there be light.’ And that comes up a lot in this selection that we've read right now, where there's “teeré bood ō seeyāh,” ‘we have darkness.’ and “teeré” being ‘dark,’ and ‘black.’ And then at the end, we have these stars and brightness. 

Omid: Yeah, exactly. How beautiful is that? So going from something that does not yet have that element of light on it and in it to something, a world that starts to benefit from that light, and as you say, that seems to be a big part of all creation. And we can also look at that metaphorically, where something exists in the states of mystery. And then suddenly that light is shed upon it, and that mystery starts to reveal itself. And that's another beautiful way to think about existence. That it starts out as a mysterious thing. But then, through some process, lights starts to show up and awareness starts to show up and the mysteries start to unravel and reveal themselves. It's almost like a sense of discovery, that we are gifted with as well. That’s part of, I think, that original verse 11 that you were talking about, where this wise source is starting to grant everything, but in a way that is just, in a way that is proper. So where there is darkness, it also grants light so that that darkness, that mystery can start to be discovered and revealed and unraveled. “bebakhsheed dānā”, again “bebakhsheed” is also ‘forgive me’, as you say. But it's also, ‘if granted generously and freely.’ That which is wise, granted all of this, “chonān chon sazeed,” in a way that was just, in a way that was proper. So that, for Ferdowsi, is really another very important part of thinking about the existence, the coming together of this universe, that things are, there is a proper place for everything, and the more that is allowed to be, the order is justice in the world. So part of our job maybe as humans, without getting too much into social matters, but perhaps the implication is that part of our job is to make sure, and to allow things to be in their proper place, and not get so involved in things from our egotistical sense that start to mess things up. There’s a natural order to things that needs to be allowed to unfold and take place. And part of our job is to allow us to let that. 

Leyla: Wonderful. Okay. Well, wonderful. I think we'll leave it at that for part three of this story of creation. And we'll be back with the next few lines in our next episode. merci omid jān! 

Omid: merci leylā jān! 

Leyla: Is there anything else to think about before we dive into the next lesson? 

Omid: I think part of what I would suggest to think about is just to see how the lessons so far start to tie together and maybe start to, maybe just get a sense of where this might be going, and we'll see that, but just start to get a feel for the general direction. 

Leyla: And it's amazing that this is going to lead into the story of Zal and Rostam and all these characters that we have come to love. I have no idea how we get from here to there, but I'm excited to find out.

Omid: Sounds good. 

Leyla: All right. And until next time, khaylee mamnoon, khodāhāfez from Leyla.

Omid: az man hameentor.